Ep 18: REI MBA - Deploying Capital Using a “Fund of Funds” Model in the Current Real Estate Market
In this episode, Jack Krupey joins us for an interview where he shares his unique "Fund of Funds" model and how they are executing their business plan within today's Real Estate Market. You will want to hear Jack's story on how he got started within real estate and about the details pertaining to his unique investment approach for his current Fund.
Jack is a seasoned real estate and distressed debt investor. He spent the last ten years focusing on the residential non-performing mortgage market and was the founder of a firm called PRP Advisors that merged with a large Private Equity Fund and completed more than $3 Billion dollars in whole loan purchases to date.
Currently, JKAM Investments participates with a select group of highly experienced real estate partnerships in the multi-family, self-storage, mobile home, and private lending industries. Clients and investors have the potential to invest in individual deals as well as participate in the JKAM Diversified Asset Fund which makes placements into many diverse projects.
JKAM is actively participating in hard to find off-market opportunities targeting strong risk adjusted returns. They provide investors access to deals with larger minimum investments that are exclusive to institutional partners. These alternative assets are opportunities for investors to earn passive tax-advantaged returns, not correlated to the stock market.
You can reach Jack through his website at https://jkaminvestments.com/.
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Interview Transcripts
Tejas Gosai: Hello, ladies and gentlemen, welcome back to your favorite real estate podcast. This is Real Estate Investor MBA and we want you to check out our website RealEstateInvestorMBAa.com. We have about 15, 16 interview so far, right Jeremy?
Jeremy Moyer: Yeah.
Tejas Gosai: And it's been a great initiative that we took place and we tried to create this. And because of you and everyone that has been watching, listening, following... We're on iTunes, Spotify, iHeartRadio, Google Podcast and a bunch of other places. We transcribe the podcast and make it available as well. And we got to thank our sponsors the Lehigh Valley Private Equity Fund. And with that Jeremy is the brains behind the operation and brings on the best guests. So thank you Jeremy. I'll hand it over to you. Cheers.
Jeremy Moyer: Thanks Tejas. So I'm excited to announce our guest today. We have Jack Krupey. So Jack is a seasoned real estate and distressed debt investor. He's spent the last 10 years focusing on residential non-performing mortgage market and was the founder of a firm called PRP Advisors that merged with a large Private Equity Fund and completed more than $3 billion in whole loan purchases to date. Currently Jack is with JKAM Investments and they participate with a select group of highly experienced real estate partnerships in the multifamily, self-storage, mobile home, and private lending industries. Clients and investors have the potential to invest in individual deals, as well as participate in the JKAM Diversified Asset Fund which makes placements into many diverse projects. JKAM is actively participating in hard to find off-market opportunities targeting strong risk-adjusted returns. They provide investors access to deals with larger minimum investments that are exclusive typically to institutional partners. These alternative assets or opportunities for investors to earn passive tax advantage returns which are not correlated to the stock market. So Jack thank you so much for your time this afternoon and joining us for an interview.
Jack Krupey: My pleasure. Thanks for having me and sorry for such a long bio. But I appreciate that.
Jeremy Moyer: Let's just start off with Jack, just telling the listeners a little bit more about yourself. You know, how did you get into the distressed debt space, and then why position yourself in the real estate marketplace?
Jack Krupey: Sure. So I've been in real estate since 2001. Shortly after college, I started buying some rental properties in Rochester, New York where I went to school. But I'm from New Jersey and grew up in the kind of the suburbs of New York City. So, you know, I cut my teeth in the sort of traditional real estate, wholesaling, fix and flip, rental properties, pre-2008. Then after the 2008 crash was moving back closer to home in New York and found a job at a small Private Equity Fund that was buying non-performing Residential Mortgages. So this was November 2008...so the bleeding edge of the financial crisis. And this Fund needed people with real estate experience. So they were buying thousands of non-performing second mortgages, home equity lines of credit that were in default and they were paying three cents on the dollar. So that was...again it was 2008 and nobody would have expected the, you know, the recovery and the level of modifications and just the way the market adapted over the next couple of years. So that's where I got my initial exposure to non-performing loans. I was there about a year and a half of them left and started my own small fund. Ended up partnering with one small family office just with a few billion dollars of capital to start building a track record of buying non-performing loans from other funds. And we were planning on doing a private placement and raising a more official Fund in 2014, but then we linked up with another Private Equity Fund that wanted to move into the non-performing loan space. They historically bought credit card debt and other receivables but not mortgages. And we did a $5 million dollar test Fund with them that turned into $10 million, that turned into $50M, a $100M. We merged with them in 2015 and over the next five years bought close to $3 billion in purchases, over 30,000 loans including from Fanny Mae. We transacted with Goldman and all the major street players. We were buying large portfolios from them and it was a great business, but it was very institutionalized at that point and I'm an entrepreneurial guy and eventually decided to leave and start my own Fund. During this time, I was also doing investing as a, just as a Limited Partner in various real estate syndications. And what I saw was, you know, I had, I knew a guy from Long Island that bought apartment buildings in Charleston, South Carolina. I knew one guy who was in the Columbus, Ohio market and you know, I had to choose kinda which projects who I was going to work with and sort of you know, where I was concentrating my risk. And you know, I was looking around for a more diverse option and other than buying REITs or just more traditional off-the-shelf financial products, I didn't see a more diversified opportunity to take advantage of the syndication market. So that's part of the reason I chose to launch this Fund which actually takes multiple positions, with multiple operators, in multiple markets. So I've said a lot right there.
Tejas Gosai: Yeah, thats awesome. Jeremy, did you have a follow-up?
Jeremy Moyer: Yeah. I was just gonna...I wanted to follow up, just to give the listeners a more thorough explanation and picture of the value add that your Fund does bring to the market Jack. I think it's an interesting story that you touched on it just a little bit right there. Do you mind kind of going a little deeper?
Jack Krupey: Yeah, absolutely. So it's somewhat of a Fund of Funds model, but I'd say Fund of Syndications. We partner with experienced operators that either have their own private placement or in some cases just a direct joint venture to co-invest with them into apartment buildings, self storage. We're looking at a senior living facility. But a core asset for us is Class B multifamily value-add...generally buildings that are between 200 and 300 units which are large enough to have a full-time management team, on-site management, but not so large that you're competing with institutional investors. And what I found is even very experienced successful operators, when they find a building, they have 45 days to raise in some cases $3-5 million dollars. So even operators with a really good network, a good investor base are always looking for larger checks. And our Fund, one of the ways that we provide better terms to our clients is we'll actually get better terms from the sponsors, either a higher preferred return or a discount on their management fee in some cases. We actually become a co-sponsor and get a percentage of their general partnership which actually increases the Funds returns. So in many scenarios if someone were to put $50,000 into my Fund, they'll actually get better deals than if they put $50,000 directly into into another Fund and the diversity is key as well. So I talked about my own issues of having to choose between do I invest in Jacksonville. Do I invest in Charleston? And so far, we just launched in September and we're already in three different buildings. We're in a 104-unit in Augusta, Georgia. We're in a 286-unit in Phoenix, Arizona and a 260 something unit in Jacksonville, Florida. So three markets that I like for different reasons with three different operators, each of which I've known for a number of years. You know two of them I've had other money with in other projects. So I feel like it's a, we're off to a pretty good start for building an asset base and my expectation is about half the Fund will be these types of apartment buildings. Then we'll strategically make some other investments in either private lending, ground up construction, self storage if we can find, as deals cross our desk that makes sense, we will continue to allocate the Fund.
Tejas Gosai: It's awesome. A question from my side. What exact kind of Fund is it if you don't mind sharing because I know, you know, there's different classification, things like that. Is it a Regulation D, A you know, if you don't mind explaining?
Jack Krupey: Absolutely. Yeah. So we've registered as a Reg D 506 C which is open to accredited investors only but it does allow us to do some level of advertising. The recent law changes the 506 B, you can't really advertise. It's really supposed to be for your network you already know. So I think the C is really the you know, the safest way to go. But it does require us to formally verify that any investor we take in is accredited. We use a third-party company called 'Verify Investor'. So we don't need to see our clients tax returns, but they can just upload either a CPA letter or just upload some information and a team of attorneys will provide us a verification letter that the investor is verified. And we also use a platform called 'Syndication Pro', so we have a portal that investors can log into. It has all the documents, the PPM, the Fund terms, and the quarterly reports will be up there and makes it a pretty seamless process. We chose to also use a third party Fund Administrator Group called 'Strategic Fund Services'. So they actually administer all the quarterly accounting, provide reports, track the investors basis on their the capital in, the capital that's been returned, their preferred return. And really just provide all the third party verification, so we could focus on basically communicating our message to investors and vetting deals and finding new opportunities. I should also talk on the structure too if you'd like to hear that because we have a couple different share classes in a couple of different options.
Tejas Gosai: Yeah.
Jack Krupey: So we chose, we actually have four different share classes, and two of them are a fixed return and two of them are equity participation return. And they're both similar structure, other than if you, for investors who put in a little bit larger amount of capital can get the higher return. So we have a 10% fixed return with a 3-year lock up and we have a 12% which has a, it's actually a shorter lock up because it's really, we're not always taking 12% money. We actually do that mostly as sort of the bridge so that we can, if we have a good opportunity, I have a few investor partners that are willing to come in short term on the 12% money which eventually then gets replaced by the equity capital. So one of the big risks with a Fund is having 'cash drag'. If you raise all your money and you can't deploy it fast enough, it's just going to hurt overall returns. So that's allowed us to do really well with managing, getting cash in and then actually deploying it into deals right away so that there's no cash drag. And then on the equity side, we do a 70/30 split. So the investors get 70%. We take 30% only after investors have received all of their money back and then either a 6% or 8% preferred return. So and then we pay quarterly dividends. By nature of some of these projects, the first year, the dividends, the quarterly distributions, may accrue because with, by nature of doing value-add, the first year a lot of your cash flow is going to improving units. Generally we're spending between $3k and $7k per apartment for the Class B value-add to renovate. And when you have a building that's bought at a 6% or 7% cap rate, you know adding a thousand dollars a month rent over the course of the year increases the value by, in some cases, $60,000. So it's very key to our strategy to execute the value-add plan and given where we are in the economy we think it's a very defensive investment. I'd rather be in Class B than Class A right now because there's really not much room to you know for rents to drop much more and you know people from Class A buildings or houses may downsize into apartments to save money. And in a good economies, people may move up from Class C or just move out of their parents house and into an apartment. So I feel like it's a very defensive asset class given where we are.
Tejas Gosai: Yeah, thanks for that. Also, super detailed. Thank you for explaining it that well. But going back to the verify investor piece of it. You know, I don't know if everyone knows what an accredited investor is, but if you wanted to share that just so you know, we can move on. I think Jeremy has some...
Jack Krupey: Sure so actually the SEC just updated some guidelines recently, but you know, the two more common historical tests were either an Investor who is a single person who makes at least $200,000 a year for the last two years, or if you're married combined income of $300,000, or a $1 million dollar net worth excluding your primary residence, but it does include retirement accounts as well. And that's something I know a lot of investors of done is they actually can self-direct a retirement account through one of the various custodians. There's some of the new rules have to do with if you have professional certifications. There's some other exemptions in addition to that I just don't want to misspeak. But by the time this comes out, you could probably post it in the show notes on the link to the SEC article.
Tejas Gosai: Awesome. Thanks for that.
Jeremy Moyer: Thanks Jack. So I have a question that might help give some thought. So a lot of us, you know, look at numbers all day long. There's so much focus on like the technical underwriting of deals, you know, terminology like cap rate, IRR are very commonly used. I do think it would be important to also hear like the actual thought process that is coupled with the technical underwriting, you know from an experienced fund manager like yourself Jack. So when evaluating a specific investment, you know, what are some of the more important attributes and parameters that you're looking for? And then can you also give, walk us through an example of one of those assets that the Fund invested in and what was attractive to participate in that particular venture?
Jack Krupey: Sure, so, you know, we as a 'Fund of Funds, if you will, I mean, it's very important that we have operators that we that we have a level of trust, trusted experience with that we trust could execute, especially if there is a challenging time. We were 10 years into an up cycle and we had obviously the, you know, a lot of uncertainty now between COVID and the election so, you know, it's definitely the operator. You know the markets, we're tending to be in the Southeast, Texas, and then the Midwest... we like Arizona. We like Denver. We like Boise. Markets where people are moving anyway. You know even pre-COVID, people were leaving California for these markets. People were leaving the Northeast for the Southeast. So we are trying to follow some of the, some of the trends. We're not baking in guaranteed appreciation from just economic cycles. We prefer to just bake in the forced appreciation. But at the same time we do, I do like the upside of being in a diverse set of growth markets. And example of the deals that we've done, that were in so far... I mean the Augusta, Georgia deal is very interesting Just the.... We're actually our partners are in at $77,000 a unit, and there is comparable sales of larger buildings for $130,000 a unit. And there's...this is a value-add, so this building on its own we might get above a $100k per unit after the renovation. But one of the strategic things in these markets is can you actually aggregate a few buildings together? And this operator is looking for other deals in that market and three to five years from now part of the exit strategy could be if they're successful in buying another building in that market, it's going to increase the sale price for both of them because we may be able to exit to a larger, a larger Fund or even a REIT that we can aggregate 500 units to, that wouldn't look at it, if it was only a 104-unit. So that's definitely the Art and Science and the relationship to underwriting these deals as opposed to the just the financial models.
Jeremy Moyer: That makes sense. You talked about the price per unit. Do you also look at the price per square foot in multi-family? What I guess, what has a higher weight per se?
Jack Krupey: It really is a combination. I don't know that there's one way. I think it's really looking at, looking at the comps. Do the comps make sense? Luckily the operators we're working with, you know are all very experienced and put together pretty, pretty detailed financial packages with comparables with exactly, you know, the unit mix, the price per square foot, what other complexes are at currently, if the other complexes are already, have already been renovated with the value-add or if they're still kind of the same vintage. So it's really an all of the above and one of the sponsors were on the phone with yesterday, also.... It's also are you leading the market or are you sort of.... think they use the terminology are you an explorer or a settler? And they like to be in deals where someone else is already maybe pushed the higher end of the market, where a 2-bedroom / 2-bath is renting for $1,350 and they have rents at $1,100 and they're targeting $1,250. They're not even targeting the highest end of the market. So those are all good signs that you're not, you know, you're not pushing the highest end of the market for rents.
Jeremy Moyer: The makes a lot of sense. So Jack, on the capital raise side... You're still actively raising capital for the Fund, correct?
Jack Krupey: Yes, and we just, our PPM just finished in September. So we just opened the doors last month.
Jeremy Moyer: What are, what are those conversations look like right now, I mean given the current economic environment we're in...still potential uncertainly with COVID? I'm sure that having the diversity of spreading the risk across several different investment classes, different markets help sell the story. But like what are, what feedback are you hearing from from investors?
Tejas Gosai: Let me jump into add... How is the presidential election affecting you and the timeline over the next six months?
Jack Krupey: Sure. I mean there's definitely been some uncertainty about the election and affecting decisions to invest. Yeah, you know and there's also fear of what happens in the capital, what happens if...there's talk of raising the capital gains rate or eliminating capital gains. And I feel like that comes up every 4 to 8 years. I just...I can see, I mean they raised it a few percent during the Obama Administration. I just think there's enough rich Democrats and lobbyists as well. And I can't imagine that it just goes away. I mean, but yeah investors are... A lot of questions we get are what happens when the PPP and the government stimulus runs out? You know are tenants going to just stop paying? And so we go through a lot of the statistics. Fortunately, I've been in some deals personally before the Fund, and then the operators that our Fund is invested with also most have thousands of other units. So we've got a lot of data. So I've been sharing the data that we've aggregated, not just in the three deals that we've went into the first month of our Fund, but the portfolio-wide. And majority of the operators, especially on Class B are collecting within one or two percent of the rent they collected last year. By nature that you know the workforce housing, the type of clientele are the warehouse workers, the Amazon workers, the drivers, the people that haven't been as affected by the crisis. Jacksonville had the highest net migration of population since COVID. So it's an area people are moving to. People are moving out of the Northeast, moving down and it’s accelerated it. So, you know people are concerned about the election and just overall is the...is the bottom going to fall out of the economy. I'm very bullish on residential. There's still not enough housing supply and even if there is a wave of defaults and evictions... You know I think post-2008, banks are trained to modify loans if at all possible and if someone is affected by COVID, lost their job for six months now has a new job, they're gonna, they're going to be able to get modifications and that process was established... The processes weren't very smooth in 2008-2009 and a lot of new processes, a lot of new regulation came on board. Some of it was helpful, some of it like HAMP, probably in some cases maybe wasn't...wasn't our favorite program when we had to administer it. But yeah, I think overall the point is that the residential sector I feel pretty bullish on especially in the class...the Class B workforce housing sector. Commercial, Office, Retail, Restaurants, it's going to be, there's going to be a lot of distress and you know, it's not something we're going to back the truck up into. But I do think there could be some interesting opportunities to buy distressed loans at 50 cents on the dollar and we'll be keeping an eye on operators that focus on that, those asset classes. Some office buildings might be in really good locations where it's cheaper, where it makes sense to knock it down and build apartments or houses because there's still a nationwide housing shortage. So yeah, those are the key, you know, it's really economy driven. You know people worried about the election. People worried about how long COVID is going to impact the economy.
Tejas Gosai: When you were saying there's that many people....were you saying flocking to Jacksonville?
Jack Krupey: Yeah. It's a...we grabbed it from, there's an article online that listed the top 10 cities for net positive migration since COVID and Jacksonville was #1. Phoenix was also on there. Two of the three markets we were in. So I can grab the actual list and then send it over to you guys as well.
Tejas Gosai: I'm also...I wanted to mention something fun because there's... that's obviously a good list. I have some investors are like where are they all flocking out of, so that we can hammer it next year.
Jack Krupey: Yeah.
Tejas Gosai: And pick up you know as much as we can. So it's really neat how...I mean honestly everybody had to re-invent themselves to some degree and now it's like what's good data, and what's not. And you know, it's funny because it's not just in the media and this and that it's also in the real estate world. It's incredibly shifting, changing and you got to stay ahead of it. So it's cool because I mean you really have a good pulse on it and it's good to hear some of those other markets. Are there other places that you're looking to you know, specifically move into that you've been researching?
Jack Krupey: Yeah. I mean it tends to be the Southeast, the Southeast the lower Mid-west, Texas, Phoenix. So it's not that there's one exact market we love. But we do follow the operators that were very comfortable with. So, you know, most of the operators, you know... The group that did the Augusta, Georgia deal also bid on a deal in Cincinnati. So we would have participated in that deal had they won, but they were I think a few hundred thousand off on pricing and they weren't going to stretch. We tend to, one of the impacts of COVID is the secondary markets or tertiary markets... You know, I'm not saying that office culture is dead. But I do think three to five years from now, maybe 10%, even if 10 or 15% more people are able to work remotely, long term, you know, that's going to be more opportunity for people that want to co-locate in secondary markets. So a market like Augusta as opposed to Atlanta has a point and a half higher cap rate. And that makes a big difference. That puts us in the deal at above a 10% cash on cash from the start. So even if there is a bit of a downturn or even if the economy slows down or interest rates go up and it's harder to sell at an attractive cap rate, we're holding at a very solid return. So we don't want to go somewhere so rural that you know that there's maybe not a market but you know, I do like the secondary markets. I'd rather take a point higher cap rate in Augusta or Jacksonville than stretch for Metro Atlanta or Texas. Texas is very competitive and there's a fair amount of groups that are Texas only that will pay a premium for Texas assets and you have property taxes are potentially higher if you're not set up right to fight the, your tax assessment. But yeah with that said, there's not a market we wouldn't do if the deal makes sense.
Tejas Gosai: Totally.
Jeremy Moyer: Makes a lot of sense Jack. So from...it seems the business plan is to find those top-level operators and link up with them and evaluate their business plan, their deals that they're investing in. What kind of, and you touched base on it really briefly when I asked you a question earlier in the interview, but what type of due diligence do you do on operators if you haven't invested with them before, you're just meeting them you know recently or what not? Like what do you look for?
Jack Krupey: Sure. Yeah, we look for the level, obviously the level of experience and track record that they have. We don't want it to be, you know, everybody's first project. I know a lot of times teams come together where you know, usually someone's got a lot of experience and usually someone needs to have 'deep pockets' to be, you know, to be able to sign on a multi-million dollar loan. So we do diligence on the management team at a high level. We want to look at the projects. Because we see so many, we're also able to compare the numbers and the rents, you know, where they're targeting the rents, where the rent comps are. We have some good relationships with some of the major lenders and desks as well. I've got actually a friend from business school, that's, from Kellogg, that works in Chicago at the Marcus Millichap Debt / Equity Placement Desk. So if I need to double-check something, I've got good friends that can double-check, you know, some numbers and say hey are these rents, you know, are these rent assumptions reasonable? Are there any other comps? Do you agree with this assessment? And yeah, it's a....it's not like there's a hundred point checklist, but it's really it's the basics on you know, do we trust they underwrote the deal properly? Do we trust they have, you know, the ability to execute? Is their property manager, you know, are they trying to manage themselves or are they using one of the, you know, one of the best property managers in the area? Our deal in Jacksonville, I actually knew the sponsor for 10 years because he'd also been involved in the single-family REO to rental market. They had flipped hundreds of houses to Cerberus. So, you know, they're only on their second multifamily building themselves, but I knew them through other courses of business and their property manager actually is co-invested in a deal with them. So this multifamily deal came to them from the property manager, who has their own skin in the game and they manage thousands of doors. So we feel pretty comfortable with that deal. So sorry if it's a slightly vague answer. There's no one, there's no one size fit all, fits all answer.
Tejas Gosai: I think you're being super clear. And I mean, it's great information. We...I don't think we've had somebody as robust as this on this side of the spectrum. So, it's great I am, I'm going to give us a warning though. Our producer gets mad after 35 minutes. So yeah, yeah, but Jeremy maybe one more and then we can wrap it up.
Jeremy Moyer: Absolutely. So I started to ask this question. I think it's a fun question to ask. So Jack. What's your super power that you would say that you have as an investor...like your, what are you top level at that you just bring to the partnerships that you're involved in?
Jack Krupey: You know, I'm a natural connector across all the business lines I've been in and I'm also pretty recognizable. So when I go to conferences I seem to you know, I'm memorable for better or for worse when you look like this. But in all seriousness, I've been you know, I've always been relationship-driven. I have sort of this idiot savant memory of like what people do and how to connect and reconnect people. So, you know, I'm always trying to figure out how there's a win-win and we're I can connect people. I will remember weird things about what people do and when I and I got this natural curiosity and sort of natural just, you know, optimism of how to make some deals happen. So I think that really has paid dividends for me over the years and just making contacts, and then people think of me when they have something they think I, you know, that I might be able to be, to take advantage of so. And it's fun for me. It doesn't feel like work and that's part of the, part of this business for me at this point too is structuring it in a way where I enjoy what I do. I've always been an evangelist too. I was the guy telling people to buy buy rental properties when I was like 22 years old. Buy a two-family house, rent the other half. I was early to non-performing notes; telling people to buy notes. You know, I've been just more, on a personal level, I'm into Points and Miles, when you could fly and travel the world pre-COVID. I was the guy who's like use your AMEX card for this, get miles, fly first class for free. So I enjoy kind of giving information out and it's a natural progression to do that on more of a wealth management play at this point, because a lot of my colleagues and cohort are getting to a stage where we're actually starting to make reasonable money and pay reasonable; a lot of unreasonable taxes. So I find myself talking to a lot of investors about depreciation now and you know, even some guys I work with that, you know, we're in the non-performing mortgage space, you know on Wall Street, weren't really as familiar with why a private investment like this would be a much better deal than buying a REIT. That a REIT does not even have a qualified dividend because the REITs aren't tax first. So you're actually paying a higher rate of tax on a REIT distribution. Whereas these deals you're generally showing a loss on your taxes, even though you're getting a positive preferred return and return of capital. So most good syndication deals, you don't pay tax until the building sells and then it's capital gains. And the, one of the new deals were looking at, they did a cost segregation study. So on a $100k dollar Fund investment in that deal, we're going to likely have a $50k dollar tax loss the first year even though we're going to make likely an 8 to 10% cash on cash return that same time. So.
Tejas Gosai: Bravo.
Jack Krupey: I really enjoy sort of just strategizing. It's like a...I'm not a licensed wealth manager by any means and I don't touch stocks and bonds, but you know, I enjoy kinda helping, you know work with investors to learn their, you know, their situation and how we can help them be efficient. And then on the sponsor side, it's love to make deals happen. When somebody has a deal and they're looking to raise X number of millions of dollars to make the project a success. It's just fun to be part of that team. Real Estate is a team sport.
Tejas Gosai: Yeah, definitely the chase. Awesome. So that's Jack Kruepy and we're sharing his website information. We kind of pulled it up earlier for a second. But great information. And I think we'll have to have you back maybe end of the first quarter or something next year...kind of touch on your projects, what you've been doing, where he ended up. But appreciate it very much Jack.
Jack Krupey: Absolutely. Thanks so much for having me and really look forward to doing it again.
Tejas Gosai: Definitely. This is Real Estate Investor MBA. Check us out, RealEstateInvestorMBA.com. We'll have this episode transcribed very shortly and it'll be online as well with subtitles and don't forget to check us out on iTunes, Spotify, i HeartRadio and a bunch of other places that Jeremy has masterminded. Thank you. Tejas over here. That's Jeremy over there and we'll see you next time.
