Ep 01: REI MBA - Potential Opportunities and Staying Nimble During COVID-19
Write Bio here……Welcome to the Real Estate Investor MBA podcast! This is our first episode and we dive right into our first interview.
In this episode, Jennifer Mann sits down with us for an interview to share valuable information and insight from an entrepreneur and business owner's perspective of what the world is experiencing right now during COVID-19.
Jennifer Mann is president of JL Mann Consulting, providing customized business solutions that help companies grow and thrive. Previously Jennifer served Allentown in the Pennsylvania House of Representatives from 1998 to 2012, earning a reputation as a skilled facilitator, consensus builder and mentor. In 2008, Jennifer was elected Caucus Secretary making her only the 3rd woman in House Democratic Leadership in history. Prior to that Jennifer, launched and managed a successful wireless telecommunications business in Allentown. That experience combined with her legislative focus on business-friendly economic policies gives her a unique understanding of the challenges and opportunities associated with entrepreneurship and business leadership.
Today, Jennifer uses her vast national network to to serve her clients and also her community as a member of several nonprofit and college boards, including an elected position on the St. Luke's Hospital Allentown campus Board of Governors and the Lehigh Valley Community Foundation Board of Governors. Additionally, and this is the last part, in 2015, Jennifer was elected as a member of the Board of Directors of QNB Bank, a community bank headquartered in Quakertown, Pennsylvania. A lifelong resident of Allentown, she earned degrees in government and economics from Lehigh University.
To reach out and connect with Jennifer, you can send her an email at: JLM@JLMannconsulting.com
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Interview Transcripts
Tejas Gosai: “Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome to RealEstateInvestorMBA. My name is Tejas Gosai. We have our website link and everything below. My partner, Jeremy Moyer is right below me and we are super excited to have one of our first guests on the program, the lovely Jennifer Mann. And Jennifer, I'm sorry….I'm gonna read a long-winded introduction. So Jennifer Mann is president of JL Mann Consulting, providing customized business solutions that help companies grow and thrive which is very important right now. Previously Jennifer served Allentown in the Pennsylvania House of Representatives from 1998 to 2012, earning a reputation as a skilled facilitator, consensus builder and mentor. In 2008, Jennifer was elected Caucus Secretary making her only the 3rd woman in House Democratic Leadership in history. Prior to that Jennifer, launched and managed a successful wireless telecommunications business in Allentown. That experience combined with her legislative focus on business-friendly economic policies gives her a unique understanding of the challenges and opportunities associated with entrepreneurship and business leadership. Today, Jennifer uses her vast national network to to serve her clients and also her community as a member of several nonprofit and college boards, including an elected position on the St. Luke's Hospital Allentown campus Board of Governors and the Lehigh Valley Community Foundation Board of Governors. Additionally, and this is the last part, in 2015, Jennifer was elected as a member of the Board of Directors of QNB Bank, a community bank headquartered in Quakertown, Pennsylvania. A lifelong resident of Allentown, she earned degrees in government and economics from Lehigh University. Thank you again, Jennifer for being here.”
Jennifer Mann: “Thank you for your patience and reading all of that. No problem.”
Tejas Gosai: “You have an amazing track record and you know Jeremy and I have been talking about having you on the program. It's perfect with with your bio and how sad the world is today. Don't want to bring up anything negative, but you know, we need people that have influential positions to help what's going on.”
Jennifer Mann: “Well, thank you first and foremost for having me on your program and congratulations. It's great to be a part of it and happy to be with you today. Obviously, none of us in our wildest dreams could have ever imagined what we have experienced these last few months. I think when we all survived the Great Recession a decade or so ago, I think we all imagine that would be the worst economic downturn and hardship we would live through and this certainly has proven that to not be true. I just don't think we could ever have imagined this clearly and it will be some time until we recover and obviously the past we left back in March, I don't think we'll ever quite see a world exactly like that again. But at the same time, I think there have been opportunities for Lessons Learned and opportunities to change how we do some things for the better, obviously at a great cost. But you have to try to find what can we, what are our takeaways here that are positive, because we can't go back and change what has happened or bad decisions that were made along the way.”
Tejas Gosai: “Sure. Well, no, totally on the nose. I'm going to bring up a couple articles in a bit like. We're getting a little of light at the end of the tunnel. There was one that was released an hour ago that says Lehigh Valley real estate market sees slight rebound in May after Governor Wolf loosened restrictions in late this month. But you…there's so much history and what you've been doing here and around the community, if we can kind of start with some of the past before we get to what you're doing now. Jeremy since you know, Jennifer a little bit more than me, you know, you guys have worked together in the past and have known each other. Can you talk a little bit about locally some of the things that you've done and then we can talk about how we're trying to shift things now?”
Jeremy Moyer: “My main question was that, I think it'd be very interesting to share with everyone was, you know early on, interested in and that entrepreneurial, you know, background spirit, whatever. You know, what got you interested in that owning your own business and then, you know, getting involved politically, you know to make change, real change happen. You know, where did that all come from, just to share with everyone?”
Jennifer Mann: “You know interestingly, I think, one of the things that made me a more effective legislator was because I came from an entrepreneurial background. As a young child, I just always had an interest in business, but I always had an interest in politics. I know that may sound kind of odd, but from a very young age, I loved to debate and would have little side businesses or play business in my house. And I think part of it is just really being competitive and wanting to win and being results driven. I think that's the most important thing. There are a lot of people in this world who they think about work as in putting in time, and I've learned very early on first thing I did out of school was all commission-based and you could spend a lot of time working and make no money. So it really is about how you spend your time making sure that you spend it efficiently and effectively and that to make sure that it's productive. There's a lot of you can waste time very easily especially today when you talk about electronics and social media and there you can kill a few hours a day and you think you were busy, but you didn't necessarily do anything that results in business success which generally means money in your pocket. So, I always try to put that condition on what I'm doing. What, where does this get me closer to whatever whatever my goal is in that current environment. So just take a step back, when I when I graduated from Lehigh, I always, I wanted to be in office but realized, you know the desire to serve and the willingness to do so while admirable doesn't necessarily give you credibility or reason for people to vote for you. They may say, oh, that's so nice,. You're a nice young lady, that's a great idea, but what experience do you have? So I thought it was really important to get out in the real world and get that experience and I would say that to any young person who has an interest to serve in elected office at some point in their life, that they should go get that real world experience, so you bring along a perspective, a vantage point that you can kind of use as your lens as you address the issues that face our communities, whether it's locally or the state level or even in Washington. So, you know that was kind of my thing. Let's go get a success under the belt and stumbled upon an opportunity through a friend of my family and ended up buying a business. We basically resold communication services, something you couldn't do today, but I bought it.”
Tejas Gosai: “Did you have did you have experience in the telecommunications business before you developed that company?”
Jennifer Mann: “No. No, I didn't, but I was willing to learn whatever I needed to and you know, I would argue that in business really the fundamentals are the same enough and make an analogy of; I’m a big baseball fan. Whether you're playing little league or the major leagues, the fundamentals of baseball are the same, and I think that's the same in business. I mean, the stakes are higher when you're dealing with a larger company because you're dealing with more dollars, more people and so forth, but the fundamentals, those basics are the same regardless of the size. And so it was really more about how do you run a business. And you know, there was a book that I read very early on when I was about to buy the business a friend of mine gave it to me and it was by a business writer named Michael Gerber and basically and you know, of course right now the name of the book's escaping me; it'll come to me. But the fundamental basic thing in the book was you've got to be working on your business not in your business and most people are really designed to just do the work of the business. Not really think about how we build it out, we grow it and the big picture stuff. So it didn't want to be a technocrat. I really wanted to focus on growth. And so where I'm going with that is I think that helped me significantly when I was elected to office because a lot of times you will see and I think you know, certainly today's headlines are an example of it. Where government tends to be reactionary. Government often times does things when there's a crisis and not necessarily, how do we, how do we act proactively and rather than just responding to a crisis? What can do today to prevent them from happening in the first place? But we don't. We….government just doesn't seem to work that way and then these crises they come about and then it's oh my what haven't we been doing all this time that we need to go back and correct. And unfortunately, there are a lot of consequences to that both financially and then damage to real people. But I think that proactive approach to how can I help you and being out in front and helping my constituents really went a long way and making a difference and perhaps a little different approach than others in their way that they address public service.”
Tejas Gosai: “For sure. Thank you for that, and before we move on. Was it "The E-Myth?
Jennifer Mann: “Yes. Thank you. I have referenced that book so many times.”
Tejas Gosai: “Here it is. Michael Gerber "The E Myth" and there's a few different versions of it out there.”
Jennifer Mann: “I recommend that to anybody who was giving any thought to going into business because just again, just fundamental guidelines rules to follow and a way to really think about how to approach your business. I think it's very easy to get caught up in just doing the busy work of the business, that all it's doing is just like a job at that point. And you know, do you want to buy an income stream or do you really want to build something that eventually is taking care of you?”
Jeremy Moyer: “That's great. And I love that insight. And I love the analogy of the baseball field; the baseball field with the minors versus the majors; that makes a lot of sense. So Jen, you know, where, like you reference before, we're in a very interesting time right now. If we look at where we are right now economically, politically, you know, starting a business in today's environment or growing your business in today's environment, and then even, you know, that trickles down to real estate, you know investors that are just getting started, or seasoned investors that have a sizable portfolio, you know, that's the kind of the audience that we're trying to serve here. You know, what opportunities do you see out there? What risks do you see out there? You know, what kind of advice would you have, and that's a pretty broad question, but what kind of advice would you have for those folks?
Jennifer Mann: “Well, I always think as you know, as an investor myself, and certainly I'm not a large-scale investor, but in any market we are always looking for sales. Right? I mean that's that's another fundamental. It's so funny to me how people are drawn to the stock market for example or the real estate market because prices are high. Well, I don't know it's not a really good winning formula but, buy high and when we get panicked we sell so we buy high and sell low is losing, is a losing equation. So I never, I never get upset when you see these dips because they really are opportunity for those who are prepared for it and you've probably heard the this variation but you know, what is luck? It's when preparation meets opportunity. And I think any time in my life where I've had some success it's only because I was prepared for it and in a position to take advantage of an opportunity. I think opportunity comes around all the time. The challenge or the problem is that many people don't see it because they're not ready for it. So that's in this case, you know, if you don't have cash available, if you didn't prepare in that way, well when there's a fail in the stock market or a sale in the real estate market it's hard to take advantage of. So when you're planning forward that it's always something you've got, you've got to keep in mind. I think what's happening here in the Lehigh Valley, I mean, I will be curious to see how commercial real estate rebounds with the impact on retail. I also would think some restaurants. You've got a one of the biggest and most successful chains of restaurants in this country are all about excess. Right, like your Old Country Buffet and you know those types of places, Golden Corral. I don't know what the new model looks like. You know after COVID-19, in the post COVID-19 world, will there be a buffet or a salad bar ever again? I don't know. But in the near term, I don't think it's something we see come rushing back. So, kind of back to what we're saying. I think, I'm curious to see how commercial real estate and particularly the retail market comes out of this. But what we are seeing here is that the setback and real estate activity seemed to be very short-lived because if you want to buy a home right now in the Lehigh Valley, you've got to be ready and looking, because homes are going under contract very quickly. So I think, I believe that the downturn, in that respect, will be short-lived.”
Tejas Gosai: “Let me jump in. So, I'm a big data nerd and I love the articles that come out in the Morning Call; the good ones. I love the beautiful articles with the rosy stuff in there and I haven't seen that many in a little while, but I do think that they are coming. I think, you know, over the next couple months, The Morning Call is definitely going to do a good job of pulling this together. But you Jennifer, you have, I mean you got a different data set than all of us. I mean you're hearing things from St Luke’s, you have some of these college campuses, you know, the bank, things like that. Like from my perspective, we have a lot of commercial deals and thank God our phones have been lighting up over the past few weeks. Jeremy and I have some things going. It's just been, it's been really good. But there is, there's this kind of, I don't want to say naive. It's kind of a rude word. Just kind of more risk-averse like population. That is like now's not the time. Maybe next month, maybe the following month and in my mind, I think those folks are really missing the boat. Like the Lehigh Valley is kind of insulated with how much activity. I don't know if the universities are coming back, but I do know that the hospitals are not stopping there and growing and all those things. So speaking to now a little bit of like the future and you know, you're working with some of these companies. Is there really a way to kind of be able to perceive the future? Is it what you were talking about a minute ago? You just have to be able to know from your previous history and just be able to adapt and turn on a dime. There's no like firm answer like, hey do this, that try this, you got to get into digital. That's where I'm seeing a lot of people just kind of suffering I think, you know?”
Jennifer Mann: “I think the path post-COVID is going to be different depending on the nature of the business whether it's a large institution such as a hospital or college or university or a small mom and pop. But one of the things that I will say when you talk about people saying maybe you know, not this month maybe next month. I think what's adding to the to the uncertainty or the higher risk aversion, is we're also in a presidential election year and we can go back. There doesn't need to be a pandemic for people to kind of be holding off. I remember this even, you know going back to 2016, a lot of that maybe not today, maybe later. People weren't sure what was going to happen, were we going to get taxed; were we going to get a tax package? Was there are they going to be changes as it relates to health care? Everybody was just kind of sitting on the pause. And so if anything maybe the pause button, was it a little bit earlier this year because of COVID, but so I think we shouldn't just think that reluctance; hesitation to proceed is just because of COVID. I do think that the upcoming presidential election is also a significant factor in people, just feeling uncertain. And you couldn't have a more; I don't think there's been a bigger dichotomy of politics on the table, than we have right now. So if you just take the simple differences right? We've got a pretty polarized country, and now you throw in this crisis, as it revolves around race and social justice and and inequality on top of what was already a divided country. It's a perfect storm for a lot of uncertainty and an unsettled environment. To turn that back though, for those that are can see through that, I think there's a lot of opportunity right now in the Lehigh Valley. We have been somewhat insulated in the sense that there are a lot of projects, big projects that were underway, before before the pandemic; their continuing, road projects are picking up. As I said the residential Market remains hot. And new large development projects, whether there retail, commercial still being announced. So I think for those who are willing to see through the noise, there are plenty of opportunities right now, and you know one thing I also comment on the college's, most of them, have announced they're coming back with some minor adjustments. But they will be students on the campuses at the Lehigh Valley colleges and universities in the fall, which I think is really important. Not just, not just for those students, but for our economy. One of my clients is the Desales University and and they just put that out there as well, but they're going to revise that fall calendar a little bit, which most schools are doing, but they want to have those kids back and they will.
Tejas Gosai: “Yeah, it's funny that you say that. My wife works at Muhlenberg. My partner's wife works at DeSales. A lot of people are waiting for the universities as a big indicator of what’s going to happen. There's also just a ton of student housing that is available. Obviously Lehigh, Muhlenberg some other places, but no thank you for that answer. I want to stay on track to and Jeremy you had a couple things if you want to take the next one?
Jeremy Moyer: “Absolutely. I'm a big believer of your either your winning or your learning. Like that is just my mind; I'm always moving forward. There's no losing, even if it's a bad day. You know if you have something that's not happening the way you wanted to, you're learning from that experience. So I would say over the last few months, there's been a lot of learning at least, you know in our economy locally or nationally, you know. One thing that I always look to put in...you've mentioned Jen about working on your business instead of in your business early on, which I love that insight. Risk mitigation, I'm big in seeing how to remove risk from anything that you do, to try to systematize that. So for risk mitigation plans within businesses today, do you see businesses implementing that? Either you know, they're used to receiving income from this source; maybe they need to broaden that or broaden the way that they earn their income. Do you see clients that that you work with are are looking into that especially in today's environment? And if so, if you can provide just a maybe a couple examples?”
Jennifer Mann: “Well, one of the things that that I would suggest is that again, it depends on the type of business. Well, I'm, you know, we've actually for example, we've actually seen growth at the bank in large part because if you've ever tried to switch banks, that is not an easy undertaking, right? Because today we have so many things that come out automatically from you know, a debit card or your bank account directly and it takes time and all of a sudden people said, you know, I have the time now that I could do this right? A lot of us went and got to those tasks that we've been putting off forever and that is one of them. So I think there, if you can capitalize on that, you know that and market it, in such a way and say…Hey, you know now you've got the time. But, I think from a mitigation, you're going to see companies are going to change how they how they operate. We've already seen some companies saying that some employees can work from home forever; if that's what they want to do or some kind of hybrid, which obviously reduces your costs as far as office space, equipment, furniture, so forth. So you find ways. I was speaking with a client the other day and they're definitely have been upsides to this. You know what, we always did something this way and realize now we can't do that. We've got to find an efficiency. Nobody ever likes to thin down their workforce, because that's real people and real lives and there's probably a few things you could do in this world that has a larger impact on somebody's life than giving them employment. If you're not employed, that's such complete upheaval of your world. But there is also opportunity. If you've got some folks that weren't achieving up to par or maybe we're not appropriately assigned; you give somebody a position and they're just not cut out for it, it's an opportunity to restructure some things and unfortunately, sometimes that means eliminate some positions. But you've got to constantly be retooling and if you aren't doing that you're going to fall behind because the pace today is so quick and well the pandemic sort of brought everything, slowed everything down for many businesses, it was, there was more work involved because they're trying to scramble and make the adjustments so that they can continue to operate or that they can continue to operate in some way. I mean, we saw it in the restaurant business. Maybe that you know, is the most obvious example, that most people could relate to. Places that never did any kind of take out had to come up with how can we do this? You know family style meals, the curbside pickup delivery. We saw some places do social distancing, you can eat in your tailgate; set up, bring your own chairs and your own table and come and eat our parking lot. But we saw people get really really creative and I think we'll continue to see some of that, from the restaurant business. And I think we'll continue to see that type of creativity. I think it'll be a long time till our world looks as if COVID never happened. It's going to be many years.”
Jeremy Moyer: “Those cuts definitely ran deep. Yeah, I agree with that that sediment and thought process. I was talking with Tejas earlier this week and I'm like, I just see, just what you were saying Jen. I'm seeing companies, they're doing hard pivots. That’s just what they have to do; thats necessitating it. And so if and I know this is another open-ended question and kind of hard to predict, but if you had a crystal ball, we all wish we had one, right? You know, the opportunities that are potentially out there, you know in the next couple years, especially locally here. And the whole idea about this podcast was to, you know, we call it the MBA. One thing I love about MBA programs is they have case studies. Case studies on failing companies and how they got turned around, case studies on successful companies. What did they do? What did management do, to successfully navigate either an economic decline or a political, you know, landscape that was very contentious. You know, what did they do to get from point A to point B? Here, I really want, Tejas and I really want to use this podcast, right now in this current environment as like a case study in the Lehigh Valley, you know. And talk with business leaders and experts in the area; what they see, what they're predicting, kind of what they're advising their other clients or what they're doing with, you know with their investments. So that's kind of the whole background on this (Tejas: “and created some hope to); thats right, there is no right answer. You know, it's an actual live case study that were working through and living through. But, do you kind of have any predictions on kind of where do you see things going? We are not going to hold you to it.”
Jennifer Mann: “Going back to that. My crystal ball. I threw that out a few years ago. It failed me terribly. But you know, I think it's, I think we'll see, I think we're going to see continued uncertainty. I think you're going to see that through the fall and maybe even post election based on what has happened. But somehow, some way, you know, this economy is continued to churn. I mean clearly, you know, the stock market is quick as the hits have come, so have the rebounds and I think anybody's looking at the stock market for example short term; that's really never been a short-term play. I remember back to when I was in office and kind of the idea of online trading was new. You could sit at your desk and it was kind of like it was like a casino almost. I learned a little bit the hard way, that that idea of the day trading is little bit more difficult than many make it out to be and kept the day job so to speak. But you know, I think it's all about long-term play. And I think history is history and we have seen that great wealth has been accumulated from both investment in the equities market and investment in real estate market. It just has to be how you time it and what your expectations are on timing. Your expectation is that you're going to make all this money in just a couple of years. That's probably unlikely. Occasionally we hear about people having these miraculously big scores. But we hear about them because they're the exception and not the rule. It all has to be about expectation and your approach and these are long-term plays and if you can wait them out and have the patience, history tells us that opportunity always exists. And as I said earlier in our conversation, if the markets only continue to appreciate, they become unaffordable to investors, eventually. You need to have the downturns in the market to make things more affordable or at least to stabilize and I call it, kind of, hit the reset button a little bit. So opportunities, they are here, they are around us. They always will be. We just we just have to, have the patience and sometimes the creativity to do those pivots in order to make those adjustments and to get through. But if you're willing be patient and be smart about it, I think it's always a winning formula.”
Tejas Gosai: “That's awesome. We got to start wrapping up a little bit. I have a couple fun questions Jennifer. So first what is your favorite restaurant in Allentown, Bethlehem or Easton pre or post COVID, if you don't mind sharing well?”
Jennifer Mann: “I'm probably, pretty much a creature of habit, I think so many of us are, but Grille 3501 is very close by to my home and kind of call it the cafeteria. I’m frequently there for lunch or a drink. And in fact, I'll be having dinner there tonight. So celebrating a friend's birthday. So yeah, it's a safe distance away, it’s convenient and they do a great job every time.”
Tejas Gosai: “Awesome. Thank you for that. And then if somebody wanted to get a hold of you for consulting, we have some of your information, do you want to give an email or website?”
Jennifer: “Sure. It just easiest thing is just that shoot me an e-mail JLM@ JLMannconsulting.com or call, just call the office at (610) 820-6266 and a little bit of trivia about that phone number. It's 820 Mann; it spells my last name. We used it as my campaign phone number all those years and when I didn’t need a campaign phone number, I thought that one's too good to give up.”
Tejas Gosai: “Yeah, you've been wonderful. Thank you so much for being on one of our first podcasts for RealEstateInvestorMBA. Jeremy and I both thank you and we'll hopefully have you back on in a few months when things clear up.”
Jennifer Mann: “Well, I certainly would like that and I intend to be a regular watcher. So thanks for, thanks for having me.”
Tejas Gosai: “Thank you. That's Jennifer Mann, and her information can be found in the links below. I'm Tejas Gosai and that’s Jeremy Moyer. Thank you guys so much for being here and shoot us an email if you want another topic or another guest in the future. Thank you guys for everything.”
