Ep 10: REI MBA - Economic Development: Bringing Jobs and Talent to the Region
On this episode, Matthew Tuerk joins us for an interview. Matt is Vice President of Business Attraction, Retention and Expansion at the Lehigh Valley Economic Development Corporation. In 2019, the Lehigh Valley's GDP reached $41.2 Billion, ranking 66th out of the 384 largest metropolitan statistical areas in the United States.
During this interview, Matt really breaks it down for the listener on conversations that he is having with employers with what they are looking for when evaluating a market to expand into. This data is invaluable for Real Estate Investors and how they can appropriately plan what where and what they invest in. This is a MUST LISTEN EPISODE!
Matt has worked in economic development for over 12 years, all in the Lehigh Valley. During that time, he has developed a deep understanding of the region‘s position in the larger commercial real estate market and has applied it to attracting job-creating business investment to the Lehigh Valley. He earned his international MBA at the University of South Carolina and lives in Allentown with his wife and two teenage daughters.
Since this episode has aired, Matt has left his position at LVEDC and is currently running for the Mayor of Allentown. If you want to reach him, please reach out to us and we will do our best to connect you!
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Interview Transcripts
Tejas Gosai: Hello, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to your favorite Lehigh Valley based podcast. It's Real Estate Investor MBA. I'm your co-host, Tejas Gosai. I have my partner Jeremy Moyer.
Jeremy Moyer: Good morning.
Tejas Gosai: Just want to get a couple things out there really quick. We are now on iTunes, Spotify, Google (Podcasts), where else Jeremy?
Jeremy Moyer: Stitcher.
Tejas Gosai: Stitcher....iHeart Radio. We are transcribing our program from Day 1. And, you can listen to us in a bunch of different formats. We have to say thank you to everybody. It's just so much support and we're super excited to have our next guest on. Probably one of the biggest ones from my perspective in the commercial real estate world. But with that...welcome to our latest podcast. Jeremy, let's introduce our guest.
Jeremy Moyer: Absolutely. Thanks Tejas. As Tejas said we're very excited today to bring you Matthew Tuerk who is the Vice President of Business Attraction, Retention and Expansion at the Lehigh Valley Economic Development Corporation. Matt has worked in economic development for over the last 12 years all in the Lehigh Valley. During that time, he has developed a deep understanding of the region's position in the larger commercial real estate market and as applied it to attracting job creating business investment to the Lehigh Valley. He's earned an international MBA at the University of South Carolina and lives in Allentown with his wife and two teenage daughters. Matt welcome!
Matthew Tuerk: Glad to be here. Really glad to talk to you guys. Thank you for having me. I appreciate it.
Jeremy Moyer: Absolutely. So thanks also for joining. I know that you are very busy throughout your day working with businesses to bring them here to the Valley. So I think we're going to get right to it. There's a lot to unpack. So first off, how did you get involved in Economic Development, and why the Lehigh Valley?
Matthew Tuerk: It's actually...so it's kind of an interesting story and I'll try to keep it short. But when I did my International MBA at University of South Carolina, there were a group of us. First year, got together, we did kind of a standard, you know, business courses, got to know each other and there's a small group of us that had an interest in Economic Development. And we formed an Economic Development Concentration within the MBA program. This was International Development, so folks who are looking at Africa, I ended up doing my internship in Central America and some initial focus in Central America. But just had a general interest in development. Leaving the program, I got a job in Panama. Still was always interested in development and really my interest in development came from an interest in cities, the way I grew up. So I had an interest in Urban Development. Worked in Panama for a few years. Got to that lovely recession that we all remember from 2008 and I just happened to be looking for a new opportunity at that time. Just before the recession, a chance encounter at the Emmaus farmers market with somebody who is running the Allentown Economic Development Corporation. Got to talking and I made that career switch and have been completely, you know fascinated, thrilled to be able to participate in development in our region since then. It gives me an opportunity to work in the kind of nonprofit sector and do some good in our community. So that's my story...
Tejas Gosai: Amazing jump start here. I got to ask you a question. Did you guys actually create that concentration at the school?
Matthew Tuerk: We did and I think it was at the behest of.... We had a couple great professors. I mean when you do... So starting in Allentown Economic Development, we really focused on the city. When I made the jump to Lehigh Valley Economic Development Corporation about almost eight years ago now, it became a broader focus and really started to do a little more travel nationally and internationally and what I have come to understand is that the quality of the economic development team down in South Carolina is just off the charts and it kind of goes back to the University of South Carolina, which is the big kind of regional development story or economic development story where everybody kind of pulled together and transformed an area goes back to BMW in Spartanburg. BMW made that investment decision and Spartanburg, South Carolina completely transform the Greenville / Spartanburg area and one our professors at University of South Carolina did the economic impact analysis for that project. So he was kind of...he encouraged us to kind of explore development. So it's just like one of those kind of right place right time.
Tejas Gosai: Yeah, but it's really rare that somebody has the opportunity at that, you know age, to be able to develop something like that, the need and all that. And so the reason that I bring that up is, you know, I think I can safely say that you have to be somebody who has vision and that's very similar in real estate overall and almost every guest we've had on....Jeremy you can agree, typically talks about like mentality before they talk about real estate. For you, you've been playing chess for much longer than most of us.
Matthew Tuerk: It's a different, it's a different game. But the folks that I work with are often playing; I'm like somewhere in between chess and checkers. These guys are playing like.... Three-dimensional chess. But it's funny that you talk about vision. I can remember standing in...you're now here in Allentown. We have the NIZ, which has had such a tremendous impact on Center City Allentown. But I remember I switched over to ADEC in January 2008 and I remember standing in that Diamond Bank building, which is right where the arena is now with; I was on the fifth floor of the building, no windows, it's January and it's frozen. And we're kind of coming into January 2008, Lehman hadn't collapsed yet but we could kind of see the recession coming. Looking out the window of that building and thinking like all right, we're going to do something with this. Thankfully, things came together and really amazing things happened in Center City Allentown as a result of that or you know out of that. Kind of beyond... I mean you look at the vision of somebody like J.B. Reilly or Pat Browne who helped put that together. Or Sarah Hailstone in the city of Allentown, and Scott Unger at the Allentown Economic Corporation. Those folks had a real vision and commitment to making something happen and had a transformative impact on that city. People like my current boss, Don Cunningham, has had a vision since he took over as Mayor of Bethlehem and early on got the news that Bethlehem Steel would be discontinuing its operations. He continued into time as the County Executive at Lehigh has been running the show here at Lehigh Valley Economic Development Corporation for over eight years now. That guy's got vision, right. And he's seen transformation in this Valley when they got that news and '98 or '97 or whatever it was that Bethlehem Steel would discontinued operations. Other places around the country without 'visionary leadership' might have just packed up the tent and said, you know fine we'll just take what happens. Here, we've really figured out how to bring everybody together, activate real estate, activate brownfields, bring leadership together to develop a really dynamic and amazing economy that I'm frankly just proud to be part of every day now. Yeah, Jeremy... sorry, I'll let you go next. I just got to jump on this because we haven't had somebody really present that information from this perspective at all in the 10 shows we've done. So, you know from my perspective and I'll speak for Jeremy and then I'll shut up for a little while. You can ask the next question. But we are like we are like these 'Hunters' that are like, you know, we're hunting for the Valley like we're not hunting for New York City or something else right and when we live here. So we want to bring it home, right. We want all of us to share in what we hunt and it's great in the real estate industry to have this ability right now in the Lehigh Valley. But I have to go back to the history of this. This was created...man, like none of this should have been here. And I mean...
Matthew Tuerk: Absolutely....
Tejas Gosai: None of this should have been here because it wasn't meant to be here. Human beings made it happen and Don Cunningham, you, a lot of people we've had on the program are the people that made this happen and got us through COVID so that we can be elevated even better than pre-COVID.
Matthew Tuerk: We say....I mean, that's the thing, we have this and I don't want to give away too much and I know you had my friend and colleague Mike Keller on the program, but we developed this Made Possible in Lehigh Valley tagline. And if I wanted to take leverage on that one, it goes back to prior to even Don getting started in Economic Development. The folks with the Lehigh Valley Partnership who had the foresight to help get the region over its parochial differences in the early '90s. LVEDC was formed in 1995 by that partnership and they kind of made all that possible, and then folks like you guys are making it happen. And so that kind of it didn't just occur naturally. It had to have people sacrifice and put work in.
Jeremy Moyer: So, Matt we were just talking about the Lehigh Valley Made Possible initiative. Do you want to further expand upon that?
Matthew Tuerk: Yeah, we can come back to it. And that's probably the least kind of real estate oriented piece of what we do but it's been for a long time, you know all LVEDC, now thanks to the vision of the partnership, has been operating for, we're celebrating our 25th anniversary this year actually. Thank you. It's been a good show; a good trip. But one thing that's happened over time is that if you go back and look at what the world looked like in 1995, the primary interest of companies that were considering locations were things like utility rates, available real estate, kind of basic business operation stuff. Over the years, their interest or their concerns about any given location is shifted to be about talent. And so we kind of could see this coming for years and understood that one thing that we'd have to do as an organization was not just give companies confidence that they have great real estate opportunities, low cost of operations, etc in a place like this, but they have a pipeline of talent here. And this really....it became starkly obvious when we prepared our response to Amazon.com's RFP for HQ2 and they asked about talent. They asked about what talent looked like today and that was kind of the pat answer at that point, was yeah, everybody had an understanding that you needed to show a company what the talent pool of today looked like, who they be able to hire when they got here. But they also asked was what is the pipeline look like? They're looking at a 15-year project. They needed to know how are you going to bring people into the market to satisfy our talent needs and for us it was bit of an 'aha' moment. And we said we can't just work on recruiting companies to this region. We need to recruit people here. We need to find ways to show everyone in a country that there is great opportunity to start a career in Lehigh Valley; there is great quality of life assets, and really show companies that we're doing that as well. So we got started developing this made possible initiative at the beginning of 2019. It got legs, it got sign on and support from our partners at Discover Lehigh Valley and the Greater Lehigh Valley Chamber of Commerce. And now it's spun off into the Made Possible Alliance that we support and our partners are supporting, that is really kind of gotten more support from partners like the Airport Authority gotten more support from Partners like the Airport Authority and ArtsQuest, people who are really adopting, and PPL. People who are adopting this look and saying yeah, this is...we want to show the world that they are possibilities here in the Lehigh Valley. The Lehigh Valley makes it possible and those people can make it happen. So the talent recruitment thing has been big for us and has really helped us understand where we're going to be in the future.
Jeremy Moyer: That's great. I love learning and reading about economic drivers, just different things that affect the economy and you guys are making change within our community here trying to bring people here to the area, as you just mentioned, bring talent here, all the different things that employers look for. Bring either operations either another headquarters here, sub-headquarters here, just bring another plant here or what not. What are some of the biggest challenges that you face when having these conversations with companies to bring business here to...the name of the game is to grow jobs, to continue to increase the development of our local economy, you know housing I'm sure is a factor in that. Do they have enough place to live for the talent pool to move here? There's I'm sure a multitude of variables that you face and data that you have to crunch to...crunch through. I'm very interested in hearing your perspective on those conversations with those prospective employers. What's their biggest concerns? As you mentioned, you're looking...there looking 10-15 years down the road, which makes a lot of sense, because they're making a big investment. And what can Real Estate Investors do, you know from a housing standpoint, to assist and make your job and your life easier to try to bring more of that business in.
Matthew Tuerk: The first question you asked about kind of what the biggest challenge that we face is... I think, obviously had we had this conversation 9 months ago, answers probably would be completely different right. Nine months ago, we weren't looking at this post pandemic environment. But the challenge then and the challenge now are somewhat similar in that, there's the awareness of this region. What we knew, what we went into this seeing was that there's generally a lack of brand awareness around Lehigh Valley. So some folks, you know, if you go to New York or Philadelphia there is greater degree of awareness, but not as much if you go out to like a Chicago or Detroit. So depending on who you're talking to, it's really getting the brand in front of them and something they understand and then from there, then there is a little bit of like dealing with misperceptions about the region. So you take things like our good friend Billy Joel who wrote a song that people of a certain generation know. Thankfully I think it's kind of left; not too many people know that song anymore. But whether it's that or Bethlehem Steel or whatever it is, there's a perception of the region, an ongoing perception the region, as a place that is, that's kind of more like a middle Pennsylvania or western Pennsylvania city. The reality is that we're very much part of this New York City...like really Boston down to Washington mega-region, and we look and breathe a lot more like those places than some of our counterparts in the midwest. So when you get to where we're at now in the conversation that we might have with somebody who's responsible for locating or sighting a location for office use, they are I think there's an increased desire to occupy places like Lehigh Valley because of the what's happened with a pandemic. So some of these denser urban environments might not be as attractive as they once were but there's still you know, when that company is looking for a place to kind of call home, they still have that fundamental issue of is the talent there, and our job is to work to show them the talent is here. I think they look, you might look at the size of the region. It's about...the two counties about 650,000 people. There is about 340,000 people in the workforce. It might not seem at first glance that's big enough in the mind of somebody who's looking to be in a major metropolitan area, but then when you expand the kind of 'commute shed', so people are coming in from outside of these two counties to work. It's really, the commute shed for our region extends down into Bucks County, Carbon County, really Warren County, New Jersey, Montgomery County, Pennsylvania. You see much bigger numbers. So for us, it's letting the decision-makers know that the talent is here and that's where, and we'll come back to real estate in a second. But that's where one of the challenges is right now is that the people responsible for making location decisions are shifting a little bit. It might not historically...it might have been just like the real estate portfolio manager, but I think there's more emphasis on talent than there was in the past. So HR folks are having a greater voice in that which works for us because the region is 'talent rich'. But when you got to that, like what are companies thinking 10 to 15 years down the line. I think they always kind of knew that a place like Lehigh Valley would make sense for them. Nine months ago, the conversation was like, yeah, you know, we know you're there, but it doesn't make sense right now based on how our organization is structured. The beauty of the....if there's any kind of Silver Linings to a pandemic, it's that whether it's an acceleration or an advancement or whatever it is, all these kind of trends that were in place are now advanced, right? So that company that was thinking about what they need...where they needed to be in 15 years and maybe they were thinking okay 15 years from now we'd want to have like Flex office in Lehigh Valley, where we have employees that are kind of working from home some percentage of the time, and then in an office some percentage of the time. They were really kind of like, kick that down the road, and say and we'll worry about the future. Well now the future is today, right? So now all of a sudden we become a much more compelling and interesting story. The challenge for us now is those folks are...let's say somebody who's operating an office in Jersey City or Hoboken their thought is okay, I've got to get out of the Metro. Right? Like we're now that this pandemic is here and people don't want to be in a place like Manhattan, like where do we go from here? And I don't want them to think that they have to go all the way out to Youngstown, Ohio or Des Moines, Iowa or a Tulsa, Oklahoma. Those are all great places, but they can have a lot of the good stuff in these places right in their backyard for all intents and purpose in Lehigh Valley. So to take part to your question and how can Real Estate Investors take advantage or help kind of do this, the work of Economic Development in a region like ours. There's been great stuff that's happened already. So J.B. Reilly has really fundamentally transformed downtown Allentown. The Jaindl's have excellent plans for the Waterfront in Allentown. When Wind Creek acquired the Sands Casino, they handed off development rights of some of that former Bethlehem Steel property to really great developer who's going to do amazing things down there. I think building the space is good. I think what the next step will be, is building amenities into those spaces, taking advantage of existing amenities in downtown's. I mean, that's where they're already set up right? So if you are the developer for the former Hotel Site around Center Square Easton, like you've got Center Square Easton. That's the biggest amenity you need. Downtown Allentown has downtown Allentown, but then adding things in that accommodate this new world, right? So whether it's...may be need for daycare on site with some of these places. You may need more flexible office space or a flexible office space operator in those places. So on the office side, it's looking in that area. I think industrial, like this region for industrial, everybody gets like the large, the big-box industrial building for distribution center. Like that's all healthy and fine. One thing that we see and we've gotten really good traction with some of our smaller... I mean, there's smaller for compared to this multibillion-dollar institutional investors, but we've got great traction from like Jim Vozar's JVI, J.G. Petrucci, PennCap. Those companies are building in that smaller footprint manufacturing range, as well as some of our nonprofit Partners like Allentown Economic Development Corporation, and Lehigh Valley Industrial Parks. They've seen what we've seen, which is we get a lot of requirements for like 40,000 anywhere up to 150,000 square foot for small manufacturers and it's just, there hadn't been a ton of inventory there, and there wasn't a ton of new inventory there. So those Developers taking the risk, really understanding you know how you have to build a model to make something like that work and pulling the trigger on putting up steel on a 50,000 square-foot industrial building. The manufacturers are out there. They want to be there. And then the last one I would say is, and this is where you know, again, the conversation would have been different nine months ago. I think the comment 'that dust isn't settled quite yet', but what is multifamily going to look like in a place like Lehigh Valley, compared to a place like Suburban Philadelphia or like Center City, Philadelphia or kind of suburban New Jersey? We see population growth, right. So we're working on this Made Possible Initiative to attract more talent to the region. But, you know at the time they were already within the State of Pennsylvania, Lehigh and Northampton County were 2 of only 20 counties that were growing. So we're growing while the entire Northeast is kind of shrinking. It's good. We need to create housing to satisfy that. It wasn't as fast as places like a Charlotte or Dallas, but the growth is there. So getting investors to build residential to support that growth. When we asked people what they wanted to see in a market to attract them to come move there, their answers were (1) available housing, (2) affordable housing and (3) Healthcare. We got the healthcare. We have great partners in the Lehigh Valley Health Network and St. Luke's University Health Network. Availability of housing is tricky and affordability of housing is getting trickier. And again, the dust hasn't settled. It's going to be interesting to see what happens over the next 6 - 9 months in those markets.
Jeremy Moyer: I want to follow up right there Matt as you mentioned, housing, affordable housing more housing in the communities. Do you...I know you guys work with bringing the business in right? The municipalities, the planning commissions, you know, they're integral in the the overall piece of everything to either change the zoning or to implement an environment for investors to develop, right? So how closely do you work with these other groups to be like 'hey, this is...we're bringing all this business in, we really need help for these folks, like Talent wants to come here, but there's just no place to move.' Like we need your help, you know to have, to incentivize investors or provide an atmosphere, an area for them to develop.
Matthew Tuerk: So one thing that our CEO always says is that LVEDC is a 'Coalition of the Willing', right? We are, we're a nonprofit organization, but we don't have any kind of government mandate to exist. We are, we exist in so far as our partners support us, and like we spent a ton of time and energy working to educate the region about what development priorities are, and a lot of that looks like working very closely with those townships, let know what the kind of world is demanding, what the world's looking for and really kind of make sure that we are a great ombudsman, you know acting in the support of the development that is seeking to occur and communicating with those Townships, the Planning Commission. We regularly talk to our friends in the Planning Commission. Just trying to get a good sense of what priorities look like. So when it comes to planning, when it comes to permitting, we try to just do everything we can to facilitate the processes. Stay actively engaged, make sure there's no surprises. Work closely with the counties, with the county conservation districts. Work very closely with our friends at the state, both on promoting the region for attracting investment, but also our friends in the Department of Environmental Protection to make sure that we have a streamline permitting process. We recognize that when we're positioning ourself against other places in the country, that permitting is, like that's hugely important. It's not just can you get a project done inexpensively and be able to operate well after the fact, it's are you going to have a streamlined process, are you going to be able to develop quickly? So that ends up, that's part of our conversation for sure. But you know, we're also, we have community stakeholders and we have to recognize what the people of Lehigh Valley are saying. And we can see, you know, there's some municipalities that are just, they are happy with the way things are and what we can do is we're not ones to kind of attempt to influence their thought, but what we need to do is let them know what's out there, right? So if you were, you know, a municipal official and you say look we're not interested in additional housing we can say but there's strong interest in the region and there's an opportunity there whether it's development of residential or industrial, wherever it is, we just try to let people know and give people on the municipal side, but also on the investment side, we give people as much information as we can to help them make an informed, intelligent decision about what they're doing. That's what our role ends up being and we work with a partners on that.
Tejas Gosai: Let me pick it up there. So that is exactly what I have been doing personally for the past 4 years of being a Realtor, is taking all the pieces of information and pushing it to the right people to make an, you know argument to come visit the Valley. Like come shopping. This is your Toys R Us, you know, our cap rates are better our you know, there's properties on Gordon (Street) in Allentown that are going to be worth twice as much, you know. We have the metrics and the statistics to look at this. So I guess I'm bringing this up because, for the past four years, it's been a you know, supply-demand or sorry, demand-supply issue, right? 2016 and '17, we went from $36 Billion to $37 Billion; 73rd largest economy to the 65th. 2018, same problem supply and demand, too much demand not enough supply, same problem. Pre-COVID, same problem. During-COVID, everyone's messed up. Post-COVID, same problem, right? So we are...I keep saying this, we are an insulated economy and I'm going to keep saying that over and over and over until everyone realizes the you know stature of what that is. I think the best is yet to come and you guys laid the foundation. Sorry to point but like you Matt, like you you guys like laid the foundation and it's cool because you know and can now realign your projections, things like that. But the main question is, 'Do you agree or disagree that the Valley is insulated, one, and two, do you think the best is yet to come for the next 5 to 7 years and crystal ball time?'
Matthew Tuerk: Yeah. So what I can do is look back to 2008 and as bad as it hurt here during that recession, it wasn't as bad as the rest of the world. We're insulated by I think some factors that have always kind of elevated us. Right? So we are, by virtue of our geography were part of this massive consumer market, right? We are part of the largest region of the country. And as long as we're part of this big thing, I think we are insulated against really terrible shocks because it's just so much diversity here. I think that's it's not me, it's the people who preceded us that really laid these Paths of a diverse economy. We are, we do well in lots of areas, we're not... But what's interesting though on that respect is that we do well in lots of different places. We do really well. We aren't like Huntsville, Alabama where Aerospace is like it's the capital of Aerospace, and anything that's Aerospace is going to be down there and it's going to take off. We're not Detroit where it's Auto. We're not Silicon Valley where it's Tech. We're a place where you can do everything well. So it insulates us against really negative shocks, but it also I think prevents us from riding coattails of any one sector into the stratosphere. So looking at the crystal ball, my thought is and it's so murky right now with a pandemic, we are, we tell narrative. We tell a story about the Lehigh Valley and usually the narrative that we tell about the Lehigh Valley is consistent with what our audience wants to hear. Right now our audience is they don't know what they want to hear. They're just kind of...there not sure what the next thing is going to be. And in part because that one's obvious on office, right? Nobody knows how they're going back to the office yet. So it's really hard to have conversations about occupying office space. But when you get to somebody who's doing distribution or manufacturing of weight gaining goods, if people are leaving New York on mass, which some of the reporting says, if we see a significant decline in this regional population, that can have...that can be tricky. I can be trickier for us. We still have great infrastructure and access to lots of the important things that move the economy, but with an economy that is as dynamic as the economy of the United States, as part of a global economy, it's hard to make any predictions right? I personally...like to me, I've been here for 15 years, 16 years now. When I look around, I'm really bullish on the Lehigh Valley, particularly in the the new world, because I do believe in people's desire to be around other creative people. We have some natural things that are just absolutely amazing. The outdoor recreational opportunities here. The communities that are here just fantastic. So I feel really strongly about the region's ability to compete for the future, but the big caveat is, hey man in this world everything is so radically different and it seems like the compression of change keeps like getting tighter and tighter and tighter, and whatever we thought we knew 5 years ago has changed now, and what we think we know about 5 years in the future like making annual budgets is nuts. Let's make like monthly budget at this point.
Tejas Gosai: Yeah bi-weekly. That's awesome. We are definitely running out of time. Matt thank you so much for joining. We ask one last question for everybody; it's a quick question, I promise. What's your favorite restaurant in the Lehigh Valley?
Matthew Tuerk: Oh, thats easy for me. It's a block and a half away from my house. Union Finch and it's a good...
Tejas Gosai: Third person....third person on the show. Yeah. it's funny.
Matthew Tuerk: I am a soccer fan. I went to...Union and Finch is the former O'Malley's which is like a neighborhood nuisance bar. So when Ed bought the building he went to a neighborhood group meeting to kind of tell people what he was planning. I went to that meeting hoping to convince Ed that he would open early on Saturdays so I could watch Arsenal play. And I went and sat down and started talking to him and hearing him out and he was kind of getting beat up by the community and I was like, I stood up and was like, Hey, I know what he's describing. It's not what you're worried about. This is going to be absolutely awesome stuff. He and I have been close to that point. So it's Union and Finch without a question.
Jeremy Moyer: Perfect. Matt, so if someone wants to get ahold of you should we just point them to the website or is that that best of doing it?
Matthew Tuerk: Yeah. Website, LinkedIn, great way to connect with me. I'm often posting about the Lehigh Valley there. One way or another we're going to you know, if we provide information to help people make informed decisions about business investment here that you know, you can reach me.
Tejas Gosai: Perfect. Awesome. In closing, thank you for your service. You're awesome. Check us out on RealEstateInvestorMBA.com, iTunes, Spotify, our website. You can hear this transcript so on and so forth. And Matt, we will check in with you hopefully before the end of the year to see how it rides out.
Matthew Tuerk: That would be awesome. Thanks guys.
Tejas Gosai: Thank you. Cheers.
